163 | TE007 | Transcending Eschatology | Part 7 | Expanding on the Statue

July 10, 2023 Daryl McMullen

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163 | TE007 | Transcending Eschatology | Part 7 | Expanding on the Statue Daryl McMullen

Date: July 10, 2023

Welcome back to our series on Eschatology - the study of End Time events. It's been a few weeks - but we're back!

So let's review where we've been:

Episode 1: The Doomsday Clock - We discussed our social and cultural beliefs about the End of Time. Typically based on science and entertainment.
Episode 2: The Flip Side - We dove into End Time beliefs that are based on spiritual or religious belief systems. And we looked at some of the major world religions.
Episode 3: Carrying the Torch - We discussed the history and origins of Christian Eschatology - and how it can be traced all the way from Adam and Eve to us today.
Episode 4: Choosing Sides - We discussed the high level categories most Christians fall into when it comes to eschatology.
Episode 5: Making It Plain - We jumped in to Bible passages that talk about the End of Time. Plain language that makes it easy to understand
Episode 6: The Left Bookend - We moved into the adult pool and walked through seven stories in the Book of Daniel. We then walked through the first piece of Apocalyptic Prophecy.

Today, we move deeper into the pool as Daniel has more visions and we get more details as to the things that will happen in the future.

Today's Topic: Transcending Eschatology | Part 7 | Expanding on the Statue

The 4 Beasts & The Little Horn
Barnyard Animals & Another Little Horn
Get Out Your Calculator

// CHAPTER 1: THE 4 BEASTS & THE LITTLE HORN

So last time we looked at Daniel's first apocalyptic prophecy - found in Daniel 2. The Kings Dream - where he saw a huge statue made from different elements, and a rock eventually hits the statue, destroys it and fills the whole earth.

And the Bible did a pretty good job of explaining exactly what the dream meant. In the interpretation of the dream Daniel makes it very clear that Nebuchadnezzar - and the kingdom of Babylon was the first kingdom - the head of gold. And from that point on there would be consecutive kingdoms that would rise and fall until the end of days:

Head of Gold: Babylon
Chest & Arms of Silver: Medes & Persians
Belly & Thighs of Bronze: Greece
Legs of Iron: Rome
Feet that are part Iron and part Clay: Divided Kingdoms:

This is where people start to interpret things differently
Some see the feet of iron and clay representing a fractured Roman kingdom right before Jesus arrived the first time
Others see the feet (and 10 toes) representing 10 kingdoms or countries in Europe that will be strong and yet fragile until the second coming of Jesus

Think EU, the Euro, Brexit and all that good stuff...
The EU now has 27 members - but each of these countries can be traced back to the original 10 countries Rome split into

Rock cut from the Mountain: Forever Kingdom

Some believe this was Jesus coming to earth dying on the cross - thereby completing His mission
Others believe this refers to the second coming - and God setting up a kingdom that will never end

So there you go - a sweeping prophecy that takes us from Babylonian times (606 to 538 BC) all the way down to the end of time (depending on your interpretation of course)...

But just when Daniel thought he had seen it all - he gets another dream...

So let's just read it word for word first - then talk through it... Daniel 7:1-14:

Earlier, during the first year of King Belshazzar’s reign in Babylon, Daniel had a dream and saw visions as he lay in his bed. He wrote down the dream, and this is what he saw.
In my vision that night, I, Daniel, saw a great storm churning the surface of a great sea, with strong winds blowing from every direction.
Then four huge beasts came up out of the water, each different from the others.
The first beast was like a lion with eagles’ wings. As I watched, its wings were pulled off, and it was left standing with its two hind feet on the ground, like a human being. And it was given a human mind.
Then I saw a second beast, and it looked like a bear. It was rearing up on one side, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And I heard a voice saying to it, “Get up! Devour the flesh of many people!”
Then the third of these strange beasts appeared, and it looked like a leopard. It had four bird’s wings on its back, and it had four heads. Great authority was given to this beast.
Then in my vision that night, I saw a fourth beast—terrifying, dreadful, and very strong. It devoured and crushed its victims with huge iron teeth and trampled their remains beneath its feet. It was different from any of the other beasts, and it had ten horns.
As I was looking at the horns, suddenly another small horn appeared among them. Three of the first horns were torn out by the roots to make room for it. This little horn had eyes like human eyes and a mouth that was boasting arrogantly.
I watched as thrones were put in place and the Ancient One sat down to judge. His clothing was as white as snow, his hair like purest wool. He sat on a fiery throne with wheels of blazing fire,
and a river of fire was pouring out, flowing from his presence. Millions of angels ministered to him; many millions stood to attend him. Then the court began its session, and the books were opened.
I continued to watch because I could hear the little horn’s boastful speech. I kept watching until the fourth beast was killed and its body was destroyed by fire.
The other three beasts had their authority taken from them, but they were allowed to live a while longer.
As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence.
He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.

Now...again...this can be a little overwhelming when you first read through it.

But if we just keep reading - the Bible interprets itself for us.

In verses 15-28 Daniel explains that he was troubled by the things he saw - so he asked for help. And a being near the throne in heaven explained it like this:

“These four huge beasts represent four kingdoms that will arise from the earth. But in the end, the holy people of the Most High will be given the kingdom, and they will rule forever and ever.”

Sound familiar? The 4 beasts represent the 4 kingdoms
We already know what those are: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome

Next, the being explains the unique nature of the fourth and terrible beast:

It had iron teeth
It trampled its victims under its feet
It had 10 horns
And a little horn grew up out of the 10
These are the characteristics or identifiers of the Little Horn:

It destroyed 3 of the 10 kingdoms
The little horn was human
The little horn spoke boastfully or arrogantly
It waged war against, and oppressed God's people
It defies the Most High
It tries to change times, laws and festivals
Eventually all of it's power will be taken away

And then the dream ends the same way the first one does:

The being explains that at the end
All sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to God and His people
This kingdom will last forever
And all rulers will serve and obey Him

Now. Sounds pretty straightforward - but as you get into the 10 kingdoms - and especially the Little Horn - that's where things start to get cloudy. Because the different camps interpret these very differently.

Similar to the Daniel 2 vision - here are three variations that emerge related to the 10 kingdoms and the Little Horn:

Historicists typically interpret Daniel 7 this way:

The kingdoms described are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome
Then Rome breaks into 10 Kingdoms that exist in some form or fashion until the end of time
Out of these 10 come a power that is different than the others
It takes control by doing away with 3 of the 10 kingdoms
Most believe that this Little Horn is the Roman Catholic Church - or the Papacy

Walk through the list of identifiers

If this is true - the Catholic church would rule with an iron fist, then lose their power at some point

Preterists typically interpret Daniel 7 this way:

The kingdoms described are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome
However, they view the 10 horns as 10 zealot rulers, or caesars who fought for power and control before Jesus came the first time
The Little Horn is typically thought to be a specific person named Antiochus Epiphanies
When Jesus came the first time - He fulfilled the last part - the kingdom that would never end
In 70AD when the Jewish Temple was destroyed - this signified the end of the old covenant - and ushered in a new covenant
Christianity became the state religion in Rome - suggesting that the saints had inherited the earth

Futurists typically interpret Daniel 7 the way Historicists do:

Though there are differences in their beliefs about the 10 kingdoms
The Little Horn - also referred to as the Anti-Christ is believed to be a very real person unveiled at the end of time
Typically futurists do not believe that the Little Horn has anything to do with the Pope, or the Catholic Church

So there you go! Daniel 7...

// CHAPTER 2: BARNYARD ANIMALS & ANOTHER LITTLE HORN

So the next dream Daniel had - you guessed it - expands on the first two.

Let's read it together - and then unpack it at the end.

Daniel 8: 1-14

During the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, saw another vision, following the one that had already appeared to me.
In this vision I was at the fortress of Susa, in the province of Elam, standing beside the Ulai River.
As I looked up, I saw a ram with two long horns standing beside the river. One of the horns was longer than the other, even though it had grown later than the other one.
The ram butted everything out of his way to the west, to the north, and to the south, and no one could stand against him or help his victims. He did as he pleased and became very great.
While I was watching, suddenly a male goat appeared from the west, crossing the land so swiftly that he didn’t even touch the ground. This goat, which had one very large horn between its eyes,
headed toward the two-horned ram that I had seen standing beside the river, rushing at him in a rage.
The goat charged furiously at the ram and struck him, breaking off both his horns. Now the ram was helpless, and the goat knocked him down and trampled him. No one could rescue the ram from the goat’s power.
The goat became very powerful. But at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off. In the large horn’s place grew four prominent horns pointing in the four directions of the earth.
Then from one of the prominent horns came a small horn whose power grew very great. It extended toward the south and the east and toward the glorious land of Israel.
Its power reached to the heavens, where it attacked the heavenly army, throwing some of the heavenly beings and some of the stars to the ground and trampling them.
It even challenged the Commander of heaven’s army by canceling the daily sacrifices offered to him and by destroying his Temple.
The army of heaven was restrained from responding to this rebellion. So the daily sacrifice was halted, and truth was overthrown. The horn succeeded in everything it did.
Then I heard two holy ones talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on?”
The other replied, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the Temple will be made right again.”

So that was Daniel's third dream - and again, we don't have to wonder what it means.

Because the Bible follows right up with the explanation.

This time it isn't a being near the throne in Heaven. We get a name.

In verse 16 we hear someone call out, "Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of his vision."

So Gabriel came to the place where Daniel was and offered the information.

Daniel falls to the ground in terror at the sight of Gabriel. And lays there passed out until Gabriel can wake him and help him up.

And when he does - he explains that the vision isn't for today - it's for the end of time. And he explains that three times in various ways:

v17 - “you must understand that the events you have seen in your vision relate to the time of the end.”
v19a - “I am here to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath."
v19b - "What you have seen pertains to the very end of time."

This, my friends is one of the reasons I can't agree with the "Preterist" view of prophecy - which suggests the end of time was when Jesus died and the temple was destroyed in 70AD.

That is one way to interpret prophecy. But it completely ignores other prophecies about Jesus coming in the clouds, every eye seeing His return - things like that which suggest a much larger event in the future.

So from here on out - I'm not going to spend much time on the Preterist interpretation of these prophecies.

However, I will try to provide both the Historicist and the Futurist (or Dispensational) views on things from here on out.

So back to the explanation of the dream.

Gabriel moves to the obvious:

v20-22 - he explains: "The two-horned ram represents the kings of Media and Persia. The shaggy male goat represents the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes represents the first king of the Greek Empire. The four prominent horns that replaced the one large horn show that the Greek Empire will break into four kingdoms, but none as great as the first."
One thing you'll find in prophecy is that it will point to specific people, civilizations, kings, etc. Not that they were the only ones - but that they were the most recognized - or the ones that had the largest impact on history
In this case - there were numerous Greek kings - but who was the most recognizable?
Alexander the Great of course
And that's the period of time this prophecy is talking about
The large horn is most likely Alexander the Great
And the 4 that came up after are most likely the 4 kingdoms that formed after his death:

The Ptolemaic Kingdom
The Seleucid Empire
The Kingdom of Pergamon
And Macadonia

Each of these kingdoms were led by someone - most likely a general in Alexander's previous regime
But Gabriel explains that none were as powerful as Alexander
And history shows this to be true

And finally Gabriel identifies and describes a very powerful person with these characteristics:

This person will be fierce
A master of intrigue
Will be very strong - but not by his own power
He will cause a shocking amount of destruction
He will succeed in everything he does
He will destroy powerful leaders
And he will devastate the holy people
He will be a master of deception and will become arrogant
He will destroy many without warning
He will take on the Prince of princes (assuming this to be Jesus Himself)
But he will be broken - by a power not of this world

Now I'll be honest with you on this one - this part of the prophecy is a little muddy to me.

I can see it from a number of different angles:

It could describe a Roman Emperor

Someone with a lot of power - who did some really bad things

Or it could be referring to the Little Horn - or the Anti-Christ at the end of time

But to me it really doesn't matter. Because either way - it doesn't change the overall narrative that's being written.

In terms of interpretation, I don't know that there is a huge difference between Historicist and Futurist here.

The concept of the ram being Media & Persia and the goat being Greece is pretty obvious.

But like we saw in the Daniel 7 dream:

Historicists typically believe the powerful figure described is the Little Horn - which refers to the Pope (or the position of the Pope - what we call the Papacy of the Catholic Church)
Futurists typically believe the powerful figure is Antiochus Epiphanies

Though some believe that the description of the powerful figure is simply an explanation that refer to multiple people:

Both Antiochus Epiphanies (An imperfect preview of a powerful person to come)
And the Anti-Christ which will come to power at the end of time

// 3. GET OUT YOUR CALCULATOR

So let's finish things up today with a little mathematics tutorial.

I know - nobody likes math.

But believe it or not - prophecy involves a lot of numbers.

Not just numbers - but dates and times as well.

So let's look at three things real quick:

The Importance of a Number
Prophetic Math
Dates & Times

First, The Importance of a Number:

In Jewish culture numbers were important. Because they represented things. Sometimes these things were specific and at other times it was a general representation.

I linked to an article in the show notes that lists all of the numbers and their significance.

But for us today - I think these ones are the most important as they are found throughout Apocalyptic Prophecy:

Pretty obvious that one means divine, whole, complete
In the idea that there is only one God

Unity
Think of the Trinity (God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit)
3 in one - united in purpose and effort

Universality
Think about the compass (N, E, W, S)
And there are 4 Angels that surround the Throne of God
Stuff like that...

The perfect number
We see it all over the Bible
From the 7 Days of Creation
To The Book of Revelation with:

7 Churches
7 Seals
7 Trumpets

Completeness
You have 10 fingers and 10 toes - apparently that's enough - all we need
In Daniel there was the statue with 10 toes and the beast with 10 horns
Both represent the complete breakdown of society after the Roman Empire

Is often referred to as a Kingdom number
The number representing God's kingdom
There were 12 tribes in Israel
Jesus had 12 Disciples
But even think about our physical world
12 hours on the clock face
12 months in a year
Interesting to think about how many times we use the number 12

And finally there are the derivatives of 12

24 is used a lot - as in the 24 elders surrounding the throne in heaven
Then there is a measurement of 144 cubits when they talk about the New Jerusalem
And then there are the 144,000 saints mentioned in Revelation

I think that's a pretty good start.

Next, let's do some Prophetic Math:

This part is either going to freak you out in a good way - or have quite the opposite effect...

It's called the One Day = One Year Principle. Or the Day-year Principle. And even though it has been used for a very long time - as you can imagine - it is debated and interpreted differently depending on whether you are a Historicist, Preterist or Futurist.

For me - this was foundational to my understanding of prophecy:

Basically - you couldn't read prophecy without it
It was a required key used to unlock all the right doors
Basically something you had to believe in order to interpret prophecy correctly

The idea is that the Bible uses two types of time:

Standard or Regular Time:

So in Matthew 12:40 where it says:

"For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."
The reader is meant to take that literally - 3 actual days and 3 actual nights

But then there is Prophetic Time:

The lengths of time described in Bible prophecy
And this is where the key comes into play
Sorta like a code key used in the spy world
You send messages that are encrypted in a code only the receiver can decode
Because they have the key to unlock the message
Similarly - the Bible hints at the fact that time in prophecy works a little different
Simply put - when it says 1 day - it really means 1 year of literal time
Like I said - this isn't new - and it isn't strange in any way
In fact this was the default understanding of most eschatologists for quite a while
So how did people arrive at this conclusion?

Well - here are a number of references to the idea throughout the Bible:

Numbers 14:34

The Israelites will wander for 40 years in the wilderness, one year for every day spent by the spies in Canaan.

Ezekiel 4:5–6

The prophet Ezekiel is commanded to lie on his left side for 390 days, followed by his right side for 40 days, to symbolize the equivalent number of years of punishment on Israel and Judah respectively.

Daniel 9:24–27

The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks. The majority of scholars do understand the passage to refer to 70 "sevens" of years—that is, a total of 490 years

Genesis 29:27

Laban requires an additional seven years of work in contract for Rachel's hand in marriage, but refers to it as a week

Now - I know - these verses hint at it - but they don't come right out and say you need to replace 1 day with 1 year in prophecy...

But scholars took these hints - went back and used the key - and found that prophecy actually makes a lot more sense when you use the key

What do I mean by that?

Well, before the key was found - nothing measured up:

Because every time period was shorter right?
If a day is equal to a day - you have some pretty short time periods
Meaning most of the prophecies should have already been fulfilled
But there were no historical events that lined up with these prophecies
Which must have been really confusing for the men and women trying to figure it out
But once the key was discovered - all of a sudden time periods started to line up - and it became clear that you could identify historical events that matched what the Bible was talking about
Now - not everyone agrees on which historical events fulfill which parts of prophecy - but things started to become a little less crazy

So I'll leave it there for now.

But it's probably obvious - I believe the Day-year Principal is mandatory in order to explain what you read in Bible Prophecy.

So let's end with some Dates & Times since Daniel has started throwing them out there.

But before we do - let me just say that the Day-year Principal isn't part of everyone's interpretation the same way it is for me:

I'm not 100% sure how a Preterist would interpret time periods in prophecy - though it probably doesn't matter if they believe all prophetic events have already taken place. To me this suggests they do not believe in the Day-year Principal
And Futurists seem to believe in the idea that one day equals one year - just with some interesting caveats:

It sounds like it is used in some cases and not others
And they also believe not all time periods are meant to be consecutive

They believe Daniel's 70 weeks is split into two pieces:
The first 69 Weeks (or years) are said to lead up to the birth and life of Jesus
Then the last Week (or 7 year time period) is moved down to the end of time - starting with the secret rapture and ending after 7 years of tribulation and the return of Jesus a second time

So again - I'm not going to talk much about Preterism.

But will try and make sense of the differences between Historicism and Futurism.

So we're going to finish with the time periods discussed in the two dreams we just walked through.

Daniel 7 - with the 4 beasts and the little horn

Daniel 8 - with the ram, the goat and the little horn

In the first dream Daniel 7:28 we read - speaking about the Little Horn:

"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time."

This is what we call the 1,260 Year Prophecy. And it only makes sense using the Day-year key.

The 2 Bookends of Daniel and Revelation refer to this period of time in a few different ways:

A time, two times and half a time (this is believed to mean 3 1/2 years - or 1260 Days)
42 months (which is equal to 1260 Days)
And 1260 Days (which is of course 1260 Days)
Now these time periods are mentioned in these various formats at least 6 or 7 times in the passages
Each equals 1260 Days - and using the Day-year Principal - we get 1,260 Years
Which is why it is referred to as the 1260 Year Prophecy

Now - here is the breakdown:

I believe this is one of the times Futurists do not use the Day-year Principle
Not 100% sure - but I believe they view this as literal time
Two 3 1/2 year periods of time at the end of time
3 1/2 years of regular tribulation and then 3 1/2 years of great tribulation
Together making up the final 7 years from Daniel's 70 Week Prohecy

Historicists on the other hand tend to view the 1260 Days as actual years:

Some historicists do not know what it means - and only guess at the fact that it was or will be a terrible time
But many historicists are able to accurately determine the starting point and end point for the 1260 Years
And they can because they've determine who the "Little Horn" refers to
If you believe the Papacy (or the Catholic Church) is the Little Horn - it helps you narrow down historical events - and eventually find the time period
For starters - you look for a time when power was given over to the Catholic Church - allowing them to persecute people who did not believe the way they did

538 AD stands out - because that's when the Emperor of Rome granted the Bishop of Rome power over all churches in the kingdom
This led to years of persecution - the Crusades - and the Inquisitions
Then - at some point Revelation explains that this power will have a deadly wound - but will heal from it
So when did the Catholic Church lose this persecution power that they had enjoyed for 1260 Years?
1798 AD is the year
In a war with France - the pope at the time was taken captive and eventually died in captivity
General Berthier claimed that the political reign of the Catholic Church had come to an end

So there you go - the 1,260 Year Prophecy.

Finally - in the second dream Daniel 8 we are introduced to a second period of time:

"Then I heard two holy ones talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on?” The other replied, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the Temple will be made right again.”

Then at the end of the chapter we read, “This vision about the 2,300 evenings and mornings is true. But none of these things will happen for a long time, so keep this vision a secret.”

This is the 2300 Year Prophecy.

Now from my research I couldn't really find a good explanation as to the Futurist interpretation of the 2300 Years.

There is a chance they haven't determined a specific belief on it - or that they do not want to apply the Day-year Principal and are looking for a 2300 day period of time that seems to fit in history.

And my guess is that many non-Seventh Day Adventists Historicists believe a similar thing.

Because the 2300 Year Prophecy is one of the unique interpretations the SDA church has that sets them apart from other Historicists.

I'm not going to go into the starting dates and end dates for this prophecy today - because this prophecy is tied 100% to the 70 Weeks Prophecy of Daniel.

And that's for next time 🙂

Let's Land the Plane:

Thanks again for choosing to be here! I hope you enjoyed this episode.

At this point we're in the deep end of the pool and our toes are barely scraping the bottom.

But isn't it fun?!

Next week we look at the 70 Weeks of Daniel.

Have a great week friends, and until next time, keep Transcending Human!

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